Two wives sounds good but what about our health.

Atong Ajal · Beginner Contributor

Two wives sounds good but what about our health.

santino Ajith · Major Contributor

Dear Sister Atong Ajal

First, I would like to thank you bringing up this crucial topic to public attention. I humbly endorsed your thoughts but it will take centuries for this change to take place in our South Sudanese communities. I approximately estimate may be at the time of our grand grand children and not our children either. Simply because Dinka people believe that it is a pride and honor to have more than one wife. Thank God, we have educated girls like you who will possibly educate our people back home. Atong, this change need a trmemdous amount of effort by all of us if needed soon because I am also concern about the health our people back home. Let us all inspire for good success.

Applause
Santino Ajith

Atong Ajal · Beginner Contributor

Dear Santino

Thanks for reaplying,and expressing your thought about it. what have motavite me to even began to talk about this issue, is that alot of our people dont even began to think about it. I felt like we have lost quite numbers of people in this way,without them even knowing it, what is the coast of their death. the Hiv virus is a deadly disease, and our people need to know that having more than on wife is just not as fun as we think. This diseas is prevetable, simply just by cuting down the numbers of wives. will be in better off just having one wife.

This is not just and issue like other issues. But here we are talking about the chance of death or life. we need to educated our people about this disease which i'm pretty sure it will take more than one person to convince them about cutting down their mariages.

Atong

mayikaher · Major Contributor

Dear all,

Interesting topic!

I am not against important changes in our culture but I need clarification prior to my response.

How does polygamy affect women health?

What I know and could possibly interfere with women's health is procreation of many children.

And that doesn't matter whether it is one or more wives.

Aher's

Kijana Dhor · Intermediate Contributor

Dear Santino & Atong!

Like Mayikaher, We are putting abandage to the problem instead of cure. Although I don't believe in the idea of two wives, I object to the notion that marrying two wives is the sole cause of HIV-AIDS. You can have one wife but if you are not responsible and faithful, then you still risk fall into the trap of HIV-AIDS.

Dhor.

Atong Ajal · Beginner Contributor

Dear Mayikaher & Kijana Dor

I am not trying to make some changes on the dinka cultrual marige belief. But all Im saying is that having more than one wife will put you on a higher risk of getting the HIV-and other sexual transmited diseas.

And i have to agree with you Dor on the saying that a person can have one wife, but if they are not faithful, then the'll still get the diseas.

So the message that I was trying to send is that cuting down the number of mariges will decrease the chance of geting those sexual transmited diseases. And that we neede to educate our people who are back home even though it will take deacad

Atong Ajal

athena · Beginner Contributor

Hello everyone, I just want to reply in this issue because I think that is good issue to be a dresses in the up coming Aweil event in November in America. First off I think that my sister atong ajal deng and I am athian Ajal, brought up important issue about healthy marriage. First there reason I think that this good to talk about issue. We all know what diseases are out there and we many never know where is coming. The only way is if we care about our health in future.

To me, it's important issue. I know that this country was founded with certain ideals/traditions at its core. We also need to open possibility (i.e. government the president) to change /adapt the law as society’s moral/values develop or change. if society supports a constitutional change that declare that marriage can exist solely between one man one woman not tow woman or three. if the state and the government wish to pass the law, so be it. Personally I believe marriage should be limited to one man and woman and certain benefits should be granted to that institution because we as a society have long decided raising our children from a committed of healthy relationship.

Thank you all, God bless you all have good day

Athian ajal deng gai

Kuot Kuot · Major Contributor

First of all, let me grab this moment to welcome brother Athian Ajal to the board. Dear Athain, we are honored to have you with us, like we have said time and time again, every son/daughter of Mading Aweil who joins us on this board adds more salt to everything we discuss here. Thank you so much for your perspective on this issue and don't forget to feel at home.

Dear Atong Ajal,

Thank you for bringing into our attention this vital issue which inherently goes to the heart of our social setting. Nearly every member on this board comes from a polygamous family, we all have great brothers and sisters from our other moms (step mothers), all of whom could not be there had our dads decided to settle on their first wives. However, that can't stop us from digging deep into what it really entails to have more than one wife. That said, I would like us to first and foremost pay a closer look at what prompted the need for more wives in Dinka culture and indeed in many other societies.

From the historical perspective, polygamy as a practice didn't emerge out of the blue; there were factors which necessitated it. Those factors are/were predominantly economical in nature. To start with, let’s ask ourselves this question: why is it that polygamy is mainly practiced in agrarian societies like in the Dinka community and not in the industrialized nations like Britain and America? The answer is simple: it is because there is a need for more labor force in agrarian societies in order to cater for the growing needs (e.g food) of the family/community/society. In agrarian societies like ours, more wives meant more hands to till/cultivate the land/farm. At the same time, having more wives also meant more children who in turn would work on the farm to produce more food. In summary, the whole idea behind having more wives in our traditional Dinka community was mainly to have more people who would help produce more food for the growing population. It is the same reason that led to the procreation of more children by a single woman.

Along the way, the whole concept of having more wives and children was decontextualized by our great grand parents to mean prestige or honour. But the founders of the idea were prompted by factors that had more to do with labor force other than prestige/honor. One would say that it was ok for them to have more wives for it was simply dictated by the circumstances of their time. Let not also forget that it was a fashion during their era.

But here comes our modern economy where majority of people don’t longer live on farm produce. Farther, it is worth mentioning that live has never been difficult for the parents given the raising need for education of children. These factors are beginning to undermine the argument for more wives and of course more children. With the raise in modern economy, living standard is getting higher and expensive thus making polygamy looks like a thing of the past. Polygamy was ok for our grand parents and our dads but it is simply incompatible with the realities of our time.

Yes medically, polygamy may not be a good option either particularly with the evolution of deadly diseases like HIV/AIDS. Let say a man who has 20 wives gets infected, what will happen to his 20 wives? His wives will undoubtedly get infected and since AIDS doesn't have cure, we expect that they (20 wives and their husband) will eventually die, leaving behind about 40-50 children (orphans). This may have far reaching impacts on the entire community which will have to take care of thousands of orphans whose parents have been taken by AIDS. In conclusion, I can’t condemn polygamy per se, but I don’t think we can longer afford to embrace it at this time and age. Like other practices, it will eventually die out but I do think that we have an obligation to begin telling people the drawbacks of polygamy. Before ending, I want to acknowledge that different people see it differently and that is completely ok. this was just my perspective. Regards.

Kuot Kuot.

-- Edited by Kuot Kuot at 23:17, 2004-10-28

mayikaher · Major Contributor

Dear all,

I will not comment on this topic now because I am somewhat busy.

But let me welcome Athian Ajal, the sister to Atong Ajal.

Girls! what a blessing to have you here with us!

We almost always feel as if we have no women who can stand with us when it comes to the major soicial, economic, and political confusions or other complexities in the community.

Now we are in a better shape because of your presence and wise contributions.

Kuot and Dhor,

That was a tremendous contribution to the topic. I appreciate.

Aher's

Atong Ajal · Beginner Contributor

hi Kout

I think you are one of the view people who understood the point that I was trying to make. its snot the matter of changing culture put it's the matter of perventing the sexuall transmited diseas. so all im saying having more than one wife is not safe.
like you having more kids its a good so there good be more hands to help working on the fill and other needs. my question is,"But what if those hands are not healthy?"

Atong Ajal

Atong Wek · Beginner Contributor

Dear Atong,

I agree with your view on the fact that AIDS and other STDs are an issue in Africa, however, you should take into account the fact that it is not all of Africa that is affected by AIDS. Most of the countries in Africa are have little numbers of people with STDs and the most affected are Bostwana , Lesotho, South Africa and Zimbabwe. These countries discourage polygamy and most of the men have one wife but still AIDS and other STDs are widespread and kill most of the people there. So the question I ask you is that why say that two wives will affect our health when most of southeners have more than two wives and still AIDS and other STDs are virtually unheard of. Are you trying to discourage polygamy or educate about sexually transmitted diseases. I would not encourage polygamy myself but I want to bring to your attention that in fact it is incorrect to say our country is the most affected in Africa.Maybe your professors need to get their facts straight because Bostwana & South Africa have the highest rate of AIDS deaths in the world.

Atong Wek

Kijana Dhor · Intermediate Contributor

Dear all,

I agree with you on the fact that having two wives who are not responsible could ease your chance of getting HIV-AIDs, but stills the question remain. Looking at Arabs countries, is is rare to notice cases of HIV-AIDs and yet they marry more wives.

Again looking back at our post-war community with man marrying more wives and today with single wife or girlfriend for that matter, are we safer now or more vulnerable?

The only viable tool to fight this war of HIV-AIDs is to strengthen our traditional values where it was rare to here cases of unfaithfulness and abstainee (check spelling) for young people before marriage. If young people could stomach this animal "abstain", then we are sure of having solved 90% of the problem.

Dhor.

Deng Dicktor · Beginner Contributor

Dear Atong,

Thank very much for the topic you have brought up for discussion. I wish all our ladies think like you. It is really difficult for our people back at home to quit this practices of polygamy but as the time goes, this practice will disappear gradually.

Atong, I think it is our responsibility to educate our people the conesqences of having many wives nowadays.

Thanks once again for your topic.

Deng (Dicktor) Athiang

Atong Ajal · Beginner Contributor

hey girl

thanks for the common that you have made on the topic. after reading your respond to my topic i just thought that, there were things that you miss understood.

I just want to make some correction, My profesore only said that our nation meaning "Africa as a continet and not sudan as a country. was the number one affected nation in the world.
And I gree with you that only numbers of people are infected by this virus in our country.
thanks for your respond.
God be with you.

Atong

-- Edited by Atong Ajal at 08:45, 2004-11-01

Achuil Madut · Beginner Contributor

Hi, Atong

Thank you opposing polygamy, I sconded, but do you forgot of ladies population in Sudan especially in Awiel? As you know we lost a great number of men in unforgetful war in Sudan since anyany-nyany one and in our fighting with Murallins[Arabs] before that. Iam also discouraging to see our wonderful females on street[Harlots] instead of second wife.

Thanks,

Manol the second.

mayikaher · Major Contributor

Atong wek,

I consider your standpoint on this contentious topic a little more cogent because cultural values are what maintain the integrity and respect of any community.

A people who have respect and honor for their values will never be tempted to practice fornication or extramarital sex with people they are not legitimately married to.

I think our culture particularily Aweil is less likely to be affected by these STDs. It is belief in our culture that a girl and boy must stay without practising sex until they are married.

In Aweil culture, engagement and dating are done only as preparation for marriage and not opportunity to have sex whenever you want to have one. This is extremely helpful my dear sister. And this has been respected and feared by most people in Aweil.

For instance, a girl who is not virgin is considered worthless and defiled because she doesn't fit to be a good wife. These are the things that can actually protect us from all these problems.

Therefore, I agree with you on this cultural proposition. Having one wife won't be a solution but how much we respect our cultural values and strict norms.

Thanks,

Mayik

Atong Ajal · Beginner Contributor

Hi Achuil

First to of all I want to take this moment and welcome you to our wonderful discussion board. It's good to have you with us.

I respect your prospective on this topic, just because i realize that, what you are saying is true. And that we have so many numbers of girls and less numbers of males that we have lost to the war. in that case, it's hard to just let our ladies hang with a husband. I gree with you on this one.

Hi Aher

It's good to see you puting time into this topic and making sure that every each point it's well discusse.
But i couldn't respond to you cause I was confuse if you were talking to me our Atong Wek.

God be with you all.

Abraham Awolich · Beginner Contributor

Dear Atong and all

I think personally that it's not much of a health issue than economic issue. If you are educated and marry more than one wife, you can not afford to educate all your children and cannot afford to keep all the families healthy. So it's not the fear of catching diseases that will eliminate polygamy, monogamy will be dictated by economy. Health is not strong enough to alter the situation from my knowledge. You could still have two to three wives and be healthy as long as there is trust in the family and wives remain committed to one husband and husband to his wives. So a law or health cannot affect the status quo but economy will.

Thanks

Awolich

-- Edited by Abraham Awolich at 07:38, 2004-11-03

Atong Ajal · Beginner Contributor

Hey, Abraham

I have to say welcome aboard even though I am not sure if it's your first time or not.
I gree with you on the saying that "econmic problem will cut down the numbers of marriage, and have to disagree with you on the saying that having more than a wife will not be a problem'".
But here is the thing most of us Dinka"Aweil people" don't belief that having more than one wife will affect our health. And the truth is that having more than one sexuall partner will increase chance of geting any of the sexuall transmited disease.
Having more than a wife will increase your chance of geting those transmite disease, having more than a wife means having more than one sexuall partner, and having more than one sexuall partner is one of the way of geting those deadly diseases.
So even if all the womans are faithfull to their husbands that want stop or decrease the chances of them geting the virus.

God be with you

Atong Ajal

mayikaher · Major Contributor

Hi Atong Ajal,

You are not exempt from commenting my dear sister.

You are free to comment on my insights or views.

Both of you can do it: Atong Ajal and Atong Wek.

Abe Awolich and Atong Ajal,

The eonomic issue will cut down the number of partners. That is exactly right. But what about the situation in South Sudan where girls come to the man without dating or engagement. A lot of people have now married more than they didn't want to marry because of that obvious situation. Moreover, Sudan in general, most of the girls are now forced by economic problems to go to the men that are better off economically though they have more than thirty wives.

I would add that those who are better educated and wealthy still have trouble unless they stay in West. Therefore, I think it would be a collosal mistake if we conclude that education and current economic situation will force people to quit polygamy, that will never happen as far as the situation in Sudan is concerned. Marriage in South Sudan today has become more automatic. People don't plan for it especiallly men, the war has made the girls really cheap.

And I clearly know that most of us me included will never escape polygamy.

Some of you will be forced to marry second, third, fourth and so forth.

The bottomline is that the economic situation will work only in the West but I doubt if that will be possible in Sudan and many other places in Africa.

I need your comments.

Aher's

Aluel Wek · Beginner Contributor

Dear Aher,

I agree with you on the point that 'marriage' in the South is increasingly losing its sanctity in that it has become a spontaneous affair with no real commitment. However, I do believe that education coupled with economic improvement can change how our people perceive polygamy. The fact that polygamy is legally extinct in the West is partly because the women are empowered academically as well as financially. And polygamy can be eliminated. There is no way that a modern self sufficient woman can accept to share her partner with several other co-wives, in the same way that no man would want to be a co-husband!

As for the topic, having two wives doesn't sound good at all. Depending on the circumstances, the sound ranges from selfish to pathetic to unfortunate. It has to be discouraged for the sake of development and women's dignity. AIDS and Sexually Transmitted Infections are, by and large, a different ball game from economics. It isn't wholly about a partner but about being faithful. Therefore, as Awolich pointed out, it is perfectly possible for a polygamous marriage to be STI-free if all parties are chaste. But it is desirible for there to be a time when a woman's value is not measured economically, a time when a man will love only one woman (at a given time). That time isn't far away. We all have to believe that we can change our people's way of life for the better. Polygamy had served its purpose in the olden days, in the new millenium, unions should be about mutual respect and then AIDS and STIs will have no chance of taking root in our society. The future looks bright.

God bless Aweil.

Aluel

Kuot Kuot · Major Contributor

Great argument folks,

Polygamy is there to stay for as long as majority of our people remain illiterate. Education and only education will change things that we are discussing here. Education will change things such as forced and early marriages. Marriage in Dinka culture, as we all know, depend on how much wealth a man has, one can marry as many wives as he wishes provided he is able to "pay" dowry. Most of the times, majority of Dinka girls who end up being second or third wives are married to their husbands out of their will and this is because girls don't have a say in who to marry in Dinka land, unfortunately. This practice is contributing to polygamy in a big way.

I don't agree with Achuil Mdut's argument that there are more girls than men in southern Sudan. The problem particularly in Dinka land has very much to do with this idea of early marriages. Most of the girls in southern Sudan are in school age-bracket, majority of them are in their late teens to early twenties, these are prime ages for school. But that is not the case in our society, girls are married in their teens, this is one reason why girls don't study in our community. Take Canada for instance, the average age in which girls are married is 32, how many kids do you think a Dinka girl will have at this age? Early marriage in our society is responsible for mass illiteracy among women in addition to being one of the leading causes of polygamy. It is also to be blamed for the scenario explained by Garang Aher: "But what about the situation in South Sudan where girls come to the man without dating or engagement" If a girl just remains at home all the time with nothing to engage her such as studying, what do you think will come to her mind? She will think of nothing but family (marriage) hence this unplanned marriages. Suppose the same girl was going to school, she would see the world differently; she would see other bigger things that she is capably of doing.

The best our society can do is to invest more on girls’ education; education as Aluel pointed out, empowered women to rediscover themselves and their potentialities. Educated lady will see herself as being more than just a "commodity" that can be sold off for a dowry at any moment notice. To make this long argument short, polygamy will die out as soon as our community begins to embrace the importance of education. But we must bear in mind that we are obligated to spearhead such changes including discouragement of early marriages...

Kuot Kuot.

mayikaher · Major Contributor

Aluel and Kuot,

Great! I appreciate your contributions. Aluel, I believe circumstances exactly count and Kuot Kuot has clearly elaborated it with solid and factual evidents. I agree with you all on the issue of polygamous marriages. They will truely end if we educate both boys and girls and give them the knowledge of considering the quality of children and not quantity. Another important thing that would help is for women to understand the meaning of marriage before they are married. Most of our girls don't understand the importance of marriage until they are married, and that makes it really complicated for them to prepare for all challenges. They do look for men because other women or their agemates are gone to homes of their partners.

Moreover, I think it is the responsibility of a few educated women in Dinka to go out and talk about all these problems most of them are experiencing, because most men don't feel it the same way the women who share one man feel it. Most men are very proud to have several wives but they don't know that their partners don't find a genuine relation. Therefore, it would be extremely helpful if you educated women take a complete responsibility to discourage that fashion and adapt a new mode in our communities.

Constructive changes will come only through I call a combined or consensus effort.

Aluel and Kuot, I appreciate your contributions, colleagues.

Aher's

Tong Deng · Beginner Contributor

Dear Atong Ajal and all contributors

I like the topic but have been busy with other things. I was able to read all the postings under this topic. I know that I will catch up with you guys one day; even if I am late, discussing gender related matter is a non stop subject. I am here today to add my opinions.

First of all let me thank our sister Ms. Atong Ajal for having brought to our attention this interesting topic. Thank you very much for that.

I think there combination of many issues and complex things that are related to marry more than one wife. Here is what I described as complex issues:

1. Male choose to have quantitative than female being qualitative.

2. Teenager girls marriages, force marriages, are the results of the parents who ignored the needs for their daughters to grow up and to be much more mature. Failed to realize the fact that girls should be give chance to marriage people of their choices not the persons like by the parents, and not the will of the daughters is another factor need to look at. And also girls can choose to force herselves to the house of married men due to economic related problem. As mentioned earlier by Abraham, Mayiik and many of you, the economic status southern Sudan has affected the life youth generally. Take example of a young man who have been in frontline for rest of his youth livelihoods without had the chance to work for himself to giant wealth, education and so on. Therefore the parents are not ready to allow their daughters to marry poor young men like the one I describe above.

3. Instead of us blaming out community of wrong doing, let us take into account that our people lack access to education and the knowledge of exposures to other cultures/communities. You could agree with me that we are now talking about this because we have the advantage exposure to other cultures’ lives and education too.

4. As stated in article three illiteracy also has had some negative effects to our marry systems. As mentioned by Atong few days ago I quote here This is not a problem for those of us who live in the Americans countries Cause having more than Two wives it not leagal, which is a good thing. So Iam just asking all of you, to really think about and how it has affected our health in the pass. The question is how are we going to address this problem in our communities?

Here are the ways forward but represent only the opinions of author.

There is a need to fight negative practices in the customary law systems. Many aspect of the said law are not in line with the international standard of human rights in general and woman and child rights in particular. This situation needs to be rectified as soon as possible. Issues such as force marriage, early marriage of teenage girls and ambiguity surrounding women’s rights to own, inherit or succession etc all need to properly studied and reviewed.

I felt we are the one do those because the time in hand is ours and if we feel strongly that something is going wrong inside our community, then there is need for us to address it. How can we do it? I need you comments and I will come back with my answer another.

I will be happy to hear your views.

Have nice time.

Thanks

Tong Deng

makavelli the outlaw · Beginner Contributor

dear atong, I think having two wives don't put you in risk of contacting diseases. you can have one wife but you can still get sick anyway. the educated world has introduced the proteced copulation where both partners can use rubbers. why don't we crab that chance and forget about beang sick just have faith in lord to keep us healthy all the time. Holler!